Trading Tomorrow - Navigating Trends in Capital Markets

Attracting, Retaining and Engaging the Gen Z Workforce

• Numerix • Season 2 • Episode 14

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Generation Z has entered the chat and the workforce. During this episode of Trading Tomorrow - Navigating Trends in Capital Markets, host Jim Jockle of Numerix is joined by Bruce Martin, the CEO of Tax Systems, and Keryn Koch, the Chief HR Officer for Numerix, to discuss the newest addition to the workforce, Gen Z. As they traverse the generational shift in the workplace, they’ll reveal how the unique perspectives of these young professionals are driving digital transformation and pushing for a reevaluation of corporate culture. Their demand for technological integration and ethical practices is reshaping how employers hire and retain talent. 

James:

Welcome to Trading Tomorrow navigating trends in capital markets the podcast where we deep dive into the technologies reshaping the world of capital markets. I'm your host, jim Jockel, a veteran of the finance industry with a passion for the complexities of financial technologies and market trends. In each episode, we'll explore the cutting edge trends, tools and strategies driving today's financial landscapes and paving the way for the future. With the finance industry at a pivotal point, influenced by groundbreaking innovations, it's more crucial than ever to understand how these technological advancements interact with market dynamics, using the transformative power of blockchain in secure transactions to the role of artificial intelligence and predictive analytics. We're here to ensure you stay informed and ahead of the curve. Join us as we engage with industry experts, thought leaders and technology pioneers, offering you a front-row seat to the discussions shaping the future of finance, because this is Trading Tomorrow navigating trends in capital markets, where the future of capital markets unfolds. During Season 1 of this podcast, we had an interesting conversation with Neil Chenai, operating partner at Sand Hill East, about the technology trends you need to track if you work in capital markets. During that conversation, neil called this the decade of digitalization, saying that a big part of staying competitive lies in having the best talent possible. Think about my wheels turning, because, while millennials might currently be the most prevalent age group in the workforce, that is changing More and more. Gen Z employees are entering the workforce every day and they're different. They want different things and they have different priorities. So how can a company make sure they're attracting the best Gen Z talent?

James:

Joining us to discuss is Bruce Martin. He's CEO of Tax Systems, a tax software supplier to accountancy firms and corporates. During his tenure with the company, he's held several leadership positions, including CFO. Prior to joining Tax Systems, bruce was the CFO and COO at Arrow Point Advisory, an international mid-market M&A advisory firm. Under Bruce's leadership, tax Systems has witnessed growth, embraced innovation and transitioned towards a SaaS model. His first-hand experience underscores the critical importance of attracting and nurturing top-tier talent to transform strategic visions into company achievements.

James:

Also joining us is numeric's chief HR officer, karen Koch. Karen has worked with talent across a myriad of tech startups, venture capital and Fortune 500 giants. Her expertise spans organizational design, performance management, total rewards and talent acquisition. As for her collaborative and authentic leadership style, she builds high-performing teams, drives employee satisfaction and integrates acquisitions. Karen is used to working with teams from all over the globe. Karen Bruce, thank you so much for joining us today. You know, to kick it off, bruce, how is Gen Z impacting the finance industry and why is hiring this generation becoming so important for businesses to focus on? And maybe they're not focusing on that, I mean what?

Bruce:

are your thoughts here? Yeah, hi, jim, thanks for having me on. Look, I think it's important to understand that, as each year goes by, gen Z as a percentage of the working population is growing, and in this year I think, if stats are read correctly, they'll make up over 30% of the global workforce now. So it's really really important to understand what these people need and what they can bring to our companies, and for me, gen Z brings a tech-savvy, innovative mindset to finance, really driving demand for digital solutions, transparency, but, importantly, ethical practices, and that's really really sort of touches in our industry and in tax compliance, because we definitely going through that tech transformation. I would say you know that the tax industry has been laggards with regards to tech adoption and so actually now they primed and ready to go on that tech transformation. So Gen Z will be critical to that transformation.

James:

So what would you say? Some of the key differences are between the generations Gen Z, millennials, gen X, boomers. You know, perhaps you know what are the differences? What about their views on the work and their views of their employers?

Bruce:

Yeah, I mean, look like really, really quickly from our perspective, baby boomers, respect to their hierarchies and prioritized job security and benefits, whereas Gen X wanted sort of a greater work-life balance, while millennials search for workplaces that represented their passions and values. And all these generations shed a common desire to make work part of their identities. I think Gen Z, however, has several distinct requirements that are slightly different to the following sort of generations. You know they've observed burnout, they've observed time pressures and poverty and economic insecurity. So they're really prioritizing their work-life balance with their passion products, passion projects, more likely being an extracurricular activity rather than being a work-based one. So they want to make sure they have time for that and looking at social responsibility and ethics is an important part of their employees' package.

James:

Karen, I want to bring you in here what are some of the key motivators for Gen Z employees and how can companies align their corporate culture to meet these needs.

Keryn:

Great question, jim, and thank you for asking me to be a part of this. You know, before we kind of go into the motivators, I think it's super important to understand kind of the psychology behind this new generation of the workforce and you need to analyze the social and economic factors have gone into kind of how they have been developed over the years. What's interesting is a 20-year-old recent grad would have been in kindergarten during the 2008 recession and ever since that, as we know, we've experienced incredible amount of economic growth during that period of time. So you know, they have not been in an experience of any kind of bull market excuse me, bear market and given what they're walking into, which is very different than what they've experienced over the past 10 years, it's very jarring.

Keryn:

And we do know that Gen Z workforce care deeply about their work-life balance, but also they've prioritized their mental health and therefore it is very important for us as employers to really recognize that and understand there's a difference between work-life balance and mental health as managers and as employers. As a CEO and myself as the head of HR, it's important to understand that just prioritizing mental health and being very clear about what they need. Don't view that as there's an entitled group of people View it as it's actually nice to know for them to vocalize what they want and making sure that there's a clear connection between their day-to-day work and what the company needs. And there is something kind of nice to know that they just vocalize what they need and being very clear that we can or we cannot do that and they need to opt in or opt out of what the mission is of the company and that's a lot easier than in previous generations where they may not have been as vocal or transparent about their needs.

Keryn:

So I ask that people listen to this podcast, kind of switch the narrative and really believe it as being transparent is actually helpful and cuts out a lot of the unknowns and we can actually deliver a product which is, I view, product as a culture to them that they need and be very clear that they can opt in as a mention or opt out. I do think it's dangerous to over stereotype a population of people, but it does seep into how we are going to be planning for this workforce. So if I was told to give some advice to managers, or to hiring managers especially, is to look for people to be very transparent about what they're walking into. What do the work hours look like? What does the expectations look like, especially given that these individuals are very vocal and they do pride themselves on having work-life balance. Being transparent before the ink is dry on offer letter will be very beneficial and save a lot of time and cost to a company.

James:

I've been doing this my job for about 30 years and I still haven't figured out what the work-life balance thing yet. Bruce, back to you for a second. So how can companies adapt their leadership and management styles to engage and motivate Gen Z employees effectively?

Bruce:

Look, I think Kieran's touched on quite an important part, and quite important aspect of my leadership is around.

Bruce:

Actually, you want people to be talking about their problems.

Bruce:

So for me it's great to have Gen Zers in that actually be really direct about what problems they're facing and where perhaps, as employers, we falling over. So for me that's great, I think, to answer your question directly from a Gen Zers perspective. They really want to know that people are looking after their personal development and they will be vocal about that, as Kieran's mentioned. So for me, if you can really articulate to a GenZ what the skills acquisition in your business looks like, that you are putting their personal development front of mind. I think that's going to be an important part of how you motivate and engage a GenZ and specifically in our technology space, opening up their labs to new opportunities around tech.

Bruce:

So artificial intelligence is a great example. More recently, as an employee, you want to be exposing them to that, because that's what they really. They've got that thirst for learning, they've got that thirst for education and they need that thirst quenched. If you're a stale organization, we're not open to these types of technology changes, you're going to really fall behind and reduce these people and not retain your top talent.

Keryn:

Yeah, I think Birds makes a great point there, because they say that GenZ have a very different relationship with money and so money may not be a driving factor, but experiences in general, whether it's outside the cubicle or within the workforce and within the work, is experiences in development and growth. And so to Bruce's point around AI and co-creating with your GenZ workforce and engaging them so they believe it as development and growth and experience is one way to really capture the motivation, engagement and retention of this new set of workforce who do put a higher price on experiences in development, more than we saw before. Versus generations before they cared about titles and moving up the ranks and being a manager and being a company man or woman, and GenZ just views that differently. So it's really just shifting how you view a total comp package. It may not just be cash and title, it could be an experience or growth and development.

Bruce:

Just adding to that as well, I think managers within these businesses with GenZ are going to have to be far more flexible in their leadership styles, because I think giving regular feedback and encouraging innovation and, more importantly, independence, is going to be really important to these. They don't want to be micro-managed, they want to be trusted. They want you to work collaboratively. It's a very different leadership style, but actually there's so many different types of people that actually a flexible leadership style across all of the generations, including GenZ, is going to be really, really important. So it's going to be important for the GenZ to see and look up and see their leaders and being more flexible, being more collaborative, being transparent with the entire population, not just the Gens Eddard's.

James:

You know, you bring up a really interesting kind of point, right, you know, and I think if you go back you know 40, 50 years in a workplace, right, the generations kind of fell in line to the management style. But now you know, I think both of you have a very different perspective than, say, myself, as a line manager who is just trying to get things done. In some cases I've seen animosity between the generations. They're lazy, they don't work, they don't work hard. I have to coddle them. You know from your seat. How are you helping us old dinosaurs like me be more flexible in terms of the way I'm thinking and adapting my style across a generational divide?

Keryn:

So I'll start. So I think it's a great question and, by the way, you're not a dinosaur.

Keryn:

I view that, as you're a tenured experience professional that can teach people underneath them, what I would recommend to you and you know it depends really on your company's business model. So if your company's business model is very much dependent on hiring straight out of university students in order to grow your business, then it is not only expect, it's not only like asked of you, it's 100% expected of you as a leader, to be able to retain and bring in good young, junior talent. So it should be part of your job description and part of like if you can keep your own job or how you are performing, is that you're able to adapt your style to retain top performers who are, you know, 22, 23, 24 years old. But I would ask, you know, use your experiences and your tenure, as you mentioned, to be helpful. So I would say lead with empathy and leading with empathy is very important for Gen Z's and say listen, I'm giving you a piece of feedback. Okay, I've been there before. Here's what I've learned from it. I'm giving you this information, I'm making myself seem vulnerable because I perceive the same feedback and this is how it has made me a better professional.

Keryn:

By leading with empathy, you're building trust, you're building a personal relationship, which is important to Gen Z's, but also you're showing them that you receive your own feedback. This is how I reacted to it and then they'll just trust you more and you'll get a lot more out of them. So maybe a recommendation is to lead with empathy and provide examples that really happen to yourself. Given that you have this many years of experiences, I'm sure you had different types of feedback that you can share with the Gen Z population as well, and then, at the same time, build that trust and that the retention and care for your people, and then I would also, you know, be open to change. They have shortcuts that we didn't know they could. You know. The big joke is millennials taught the boomers how to PDF a document right. So what can Gen Z's do for us? And we have to be open to that and stay hip, and that would be my recommendation.

James:

So the key takeaway for me is don't throw chairs in the conference room anymore. Okay, got it.

Keryn:

Yeah, I would recommend doing that.

James:

Excellent, Bruce. I want to come back over to you for a second. How should companies be thinking about technology and innovation as a difference maker for Gen Z?

Bruce:

You know, for me, like graduates and younger people don't want to join the finance industry to do really mundane tasks. You know the days of having to crunch through Excel spreadsheets and those types of things are gone for that generation because they know that technology can do these things in a more efficient way. So you know, I think you really have to be seen to be leading with technology. That's not just the same old thing you always did before, you know. So, embracing those technologies, like I really mentioned around you know artificial intelligence and robotic process automation, but as well as using, you know, systems and software where we can actually properly man data and use analytics and do that in a visual way, will be essential to keeping these people focused and retaining them in your business.

James:

And Bruce, maybe you know from your perspective what are some common misconceptions about Gen Z workers and how can understanding this improve the hiring process.

Bruce:

I mean I think you're in touch on one. For me, that's really important is, actually, these people do like to speak their mind, and often that is seen as them being obnoxious, being ahead of their station, and that's definitely how the sort of old God would see that, whereas for me, I actually way prefer that, because to have a litmus test to understand where someone is at in their career and how they're feeling about your company is super important. So the more people talk, the more people tell you about themselves and how they're feeling is not them being obnoxious or being ahead of their station. It's an opportunity for you, as a leader of the business, to really learn and adapt your style, adapt your business processes in order to really talk to these people. You know, so for me, that that is one where we definitely need to get past that stigma quite quickly.

Bruce:

Otherwise you will those people that they won't even, they won't even be through the interviews. They'll jump off early on. They'll be able to read into that pretty quickly. So you know, for me, making sure you're hiring processes are right, you've got the right people in the room, but, more importantly, that you can talk to how your business operates. That will, you know, actually bring these people in, attract them and nurture them, listen to them. As Kieran said, lead with empathy. I think also leading with authenticity and showing vulnerability are important qualities that Jen Zedas will need to see, because, ultimately, like we all human, we all make mistakes and Jen Zedas don't want to see people that think they're perfect. We all, we're all fallible and actually sharing that those, those shortcomings, is often a really, really good way of bringing people closer.

Keryn:

I also think a big misconception is that if you just Google Jen Zedas in the workplace, it'll talk about, as I mentioned, prioritizing mental health. And you know there is a stigma previously about people addressing their mental health, especially men prioritizing mental health, and going through the last person to go see a therapist, etc. And this is a new generation of people who when they say I prioritize my mental health, that could be misconstrued as they can't handle stress, they can't be in high stress environments and they can't succeed. That's actually not. That's not true with the flip, the narrative of, like, they know where they do and when they do their best work and so if I'm prioritizing their mental health, you'll, at the long run, get more out of them.

Keryn:

So again, it's about switching the narrative and not just, you know, looking at things that face values and they talk about mental health. It's not because they're soft or they can't handle that stress, it is they know which environments they can strive and do their best work. So I think that's very important. And then it's important for companies to provide tools for people and you know everyone, especially Gen Z, is to have access to mental health technology and mental health access. And you know, given that I run health benefits as well, a lot of that's actually free. You just need to talk about it and communicate it and make sure that people know that that it's an environment in which carving out time to see your therapist is okay, because at the end of the day, we'll get more out of you and you'll be a happier and sustained higher performance over the long term.

James:

So, karen, I want to stay with you for a second right, yeah, and you spoke about the generations having a different relationship with money and I think that's that's very interesting, right, you know, for the, for the Gen X, or is you know, is my 401k matching and at what rate? So how is this changing the way you're thinking, you know, across the industry, around benefits and what's really kind of important to Gen Z?

Keryn:

What's interesting. There's a couple things around money and compensation. One that is something all of us leaders need to really know is that their relationship to money is they're much more transparent. So they are much more likely to share what their base compensation is, what what their offer looks like, what their annual bonus came out at, and so you just have to assume that everyone talk about their own compensation. So that's just something. I don't know that changes the way in which that you approach compensation. But everyone should be aware that they're much more free about how much money they make, because they don't have this like psychological or personal relationship with money as previous generations and they really highly value being transparent and fairness. So if the person next to me, the analyst next to me, better be making the exact same amount of money as me and I'm just going to share with it because they don't have that kind of stigma around money that they've had previously. So that does change how we think about compensation in general.

Keryn:

Another thing is flexibility. We've met a few times flexibility around benefits. So they want to pick and choose their benefit suite. So they don't want like the out-of-the-box benefits they want to say, oh, I want to be able to have a to ride my bike and get you know 100 bucks to, because I don't take the subway or, you know, I don't take the underground. So they want a bit more flexibility and not just an out-of-the-box kind of benefits package.

Keryn:

And then also around compensation, as I mentioned and I would reiterate and really encourage people is to think about, you know, their own growth and their development.

Keryn:

And that doesn't mean you to go and spend thousands of dollars on external trainer, but really harness how the smart, tenured individuals in the company to teach and do lunch and learns and to hold the seminar about something that's that they're experts in and that doesn't even need to be like work related. It could be something that people are very good at or experience maybe they're amazing artists or what have you but it's really harnessing and having people believe that they're growing and developing. You know, outside of which, what's they're receiving from their paycheck. So again for leaders and managers, be aware that compensation is shared amongst their peers in much higher volumes ever before. To flexibility around benefits and having people be able to choose and have autonomy around what they can select and make it feel much more customized. And in third, is to not just worry about the cash but think about the growth and development of people learning about those experiences broader than just the cash. So those that's. Hopefully that answers your question yeah, no, thank you.

James:

And so I do want to bring up a controversial question, and it's around work from home in hybrid workplaces. And it seems like the hybrid workplace is evolving. Moreover, industries are changing because of it. Construction firms are now looking at residential apartments with home offices and things of that nature. You know, and arguably we've seen a lot of research of the impact of remote learning on school kids. But you know, there's also been a lot said of professional development and relationships building by being together in an office environment. I mean, arguably, gen Z, during the, the COVID time, was at a pivotal point in their career. You know what do you think the impact of the hybrid work environment potentially could be on on this Gen Z generation?

Bruce:

Look, jim, for me it's important to remember what what hybrid working is. So hybrid work in sits on a spectrum between working from home and working in the office full-time. Right, it is a hybrid of those two endpoints of the spectrum. So it's not working from home and it's not working in the office full-time, because there are huge amounts of benefit to people coming together and collaborating in an office space and talking to each other and having those water cooler conversations, and there's also huge amounts of benefit from people heads down at home doing really thought provoking work that they need time, space and quietness to do. So I think when we need to be ready careful is it's not working from home.

Bruce:

Right, working from home is not the answer because ultimately I think that's gonna end in a very what are the businesses if they allow their people pushing people just to work from mental health illnesses? We not seeing the full ramifications of those just yet, and I think you know the psychological studies done in the future about the impact of just working from home and being in your own bubble. So you know, for us, your attack systems. We are really, you know, having a mantra of coming into the office just as important as working from home but also coming into the office is not coming into the office eight to five and then you go home. Coming into the office is coming in for a Key collaboration activity that maybe between ten and two, and then you are home again. Right, so again, it's that. What, what? What does flexibility really look like and how flexible you prepare to be with your employees? Because you know, the more flexible you are within certain guardrails and courage and come in is really important to put for safe guarding of your employees as well.

James:

So thank you, bruce. So we've made it to the final question of the podcast and we call it the trend drop. It's like a desert island question. So if you could track one trend in hiring gen z, what would it be? And I'll start with you.

Keryn:

So a trend that I think it would be very important is to see just general retention. I think you know there is an argument that you know this next generation doesn't care about ten year and how long they're at a company for, and so that is just something that we all just accept as leaders and business owners. And to see if they really just every year or every six months they just change jobs because they want to experience something different or move to a different country or move to a new industry. If that is a part of kind of the, the generalization of the next set of employees that we see, to plan accordingly. And how do you plan? You plan by having very quick and efficient onboarding practices and having very good knowledge transfer in the preparation that it's maybe very, very difficult to retain people for more than one year, two year, three or four years If that is kind of the trend that's happening with the next generation of employees.

Keryn:

So onboarding will be much more important, knowledge transfer much more important In documentation, so that you can create business continuity. The next generation of workforce does have higher turnover, not because of something you're doing wrong at the company, but that is what the psychology or the motivations of the next generation of workforce. Bruce, same question to you.

Bruce:

It's a good question, thanks. Thanks for dropping me into this desert island. For me, the focus would be on the emphasis on workplace flexibility and remote work options. Now, it's quite broad, but the rational is simple. There are several aspects that are important to Gen Z and they include, like we spoke about, work life balance, use of technology for productivity and a preference for a job that offers a degree of autonomy and flexibility in and where work is completed. So I think having a keen eye on that and seeing how people are adopting that will be a key trend for me, I think.

James:

Well, karen Bruce, I want to thank you so much for your time and your insights and and bring you a very different perspective to this podcast, which can get a little technical. So this is really helpful for so many people to be thinking about and have it top of mind. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks, jim.

Keryn:

No problem, jim thanks for having me.

James:

Coming up next week on Trading Tomorrow, navigating Trends and Capital Markets. Responsible AI is on many people's minds, especially with the highly regulated finance industry. We speak with Dr Marav Ozer, a leading global expert on emerging technologies, about how the key to responsible implementation could lie in another popular technology.