Trading Tomorrow - Navigating Trends in Capital Markets

The Rise of Agentic AI and How It Changes Everything

• Numerix • Season 4 • Episode 35

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What happens when AI stops asking for instructions and starts acting on its own? In this episode, we explore the rise of Agentic AI with expert Enver Cetin Listen as he and host, Jim Jockle, breaks down what makes Agentic AI different from traditional models, why it’s revolutionizing industries, and how businesses can build trust and governance around autonomous decision-making. 

Jim Jockle:

Welcome to Trading Tomorrow Navigating Trends in Capital Markets the podcast where we deep dive into technologies reshaping the world of capital markets. I'm your host, jim Jockle, a veteran of the finance industry with a passion for the complexities of financial technologies and market trends. In each episode, we'll explore the cutting-edge trends, tools and strategies driving today's financial landscapes and paving the way for the future. With the finance industry at a pivotal point, influenced by groundbreaking innovations, it's more crucial than ever to understand how these technological advancements interact with market dynamics.

Jim Jockle:

We're diving into one of the most transformative developments in artificial intelligence agentic AI. Unlike traditional AI assistants that rely on human prompts, agentic AI is designed to think, plan and act autonomously towards specific goals. These AI-powered agents can optimize supply chains in real time, revolutionize customer service and even drive scientific discovery, all without direct human intervention. To explore Agentic AI further, we're joined by Enver Seaton, senior Manager for Generative AI at ClickLum, a global digital solutions company With a background in AI strategy and automation. Enver helps businesses harness AI-driven transformation and has spoken at industry events and universities on the future of AI, enterprise adoption and the emerging role of AI agents in business. Today, he'll help us unpack what agentic AI really is, why it's critical to the future of work and how businesses can prepare for this shift.

Guest:

Enver welcome. Thank you for having me today, jim. It's a pleasure to join and explore today's fascinating topic.

Jim Jockle:

Yeah, so agentic AI. It's gaining a lot of attention. Arguably, chat GPT is old school and it's all about agents. But perhaps you can start by explaining what it is, how it differs from traditional AI models like chatbots or generative AI.

Guest:

Of course. So for me, agentic AI is truly changing the game, and here's why and I always try to use examples just imagine you're working with a typical chatbot or a generative ai tool. You have a question or need something done and you explicitly tell it what to do. It then responds based on your prompt, and that's traditional ai. It's responsive and, of course, helpful, but requires constant human guidance. And now let's think of agentic AI as giving AI not just ears to listen, but also legs to move forward independently and eyes to spot opportunities on its own. So, instead of waiting for instructions, agentic AI can think, plan and act more or less independently to achieve a specific goal, and that's where the whole proactiveness comes in place.

Jim Jockle:

So let's talk about proactive AI. What does that really mean and how can this proactiveness be a game changer?

Guest:

So when I call agentic AI proactive, I mean that, of course, traditional AI models are like helpful assistants they respond when asked, but proactive AI agents don't sit around waiting for instructions. Instead, they constantly monitor their environment, your environment, anticipate what's coming next and actively take steps to achieve their or your goals, and sometimes even before humans notice a need. So think of a proactive AI like a skilled team member who is always looking out for your best interest, and imagine you're running an investment portfolio and a proactive AI doesn't wait until you say, penalize the risk in my investment. Instead, it's constantly scanning the market trends, identifying potential risk and adjusting strategists strategies automatically, even overnight when you're sleeping, and it's sometimes even several steps ahead, continuously adopting to changing changing trends, changing data, and always tries to be proactive and not waiting for your guidance.

Jim Jockle:

That seems to have implicit within that a tremendous amount of trust to let agents work on your behalf. You know, in setting these up and thinking about it, you know how are you gaining trust with that end user?

Guest:

I mean, of course, autonomy brings up critical questions around trust, reliability and, of course, graphics as well, and these concerns that can't be taken lightly. My advice always is to ensure that Agile AI remains reliable and ethical. It's crucial to build robust guardrails, so organizations that want to use AI agents you need to have transparent mechanism, regularly audit decision-making processes and constantly monitor, for example, for bias or unexpected behavior. And constantly monitor, for example, for bias or unexpected behavior. So you need to have your guardrails and governance in place to make sure you know why the AI agent is behaving like it is and it is actively pursuing your goal and not its own goals.

Jim Jockle:

So when I think about generative AI, I think three years ago all we did was talk about hallucinations, and that conversation has pretty much come to an end. I mean, in terms of agentic AI, how long is this technology?

Guest:

It probably depends on who you're asking, but for me, agentic AI for me, isn't some distant. It's not a futuristic idea anymore. It's already there and it's already making significant impacts right now. To give you a clear picture, let's explore an example from one of our case studies from the financial industry. Some hedge funds, for example, and trading firms they actively are deploying AI agents to manage investment portfolios autonomously and they are continuously analyzing market data, predicting trends, identifying investment opportunities and sometimes even making trades independently, and all in real time. Real time. Beyond finance, we also have logistics and supply chain management that are also experiencing remarkable changes, as AI agents, for example, optimize shipping routes, inventory levels and resource allocation without human input. So for me, or what I'm seeing out of the market or from the industry, it isn't just theoretical. There are businesses who are already witnessing impressive efficiency gains, cost reductions and strategic advantages by integrating AI agents today.

Jim Jockle:

So you talk about goals and guardrails, and guardrails, I would assume, are critical right In terms of, if my goal is make money, right, to what extent? How are guardrails being built to ensure things are ethical, things are not exploiting any and every opportunity just to reach a goal, without that kind of human bias?

Guest:

of course, um, I mean, there are multiple ways to to to set up guardrails, but what I always try to do is to, for, when I use goals, when I try to give an ai agent a goal to to pursue for me, I always try to use as much context as possible. I I make sure I do have the right data in place and I, for example, just to be very specific, I'm using smart goals. So I'm making sure the goals I'm giving the model, they are measurable, they are well defined. There are no room for not understanding them, and that's one specific way to make sure your goals are understood by the models as well.

Jim Jockle:

That's really interesting in terms of the acronym of the SMART goals. I think there's this huge fear of knowledge work and workers being replaced, but at the same time as I speak with you or speak with others, it's like you really need your MBA and a good understanding of fundamental principles and the way of knowledge and knowledge work to actually engage and get the most out of these types of tools. But you know, I mean, some experts are believing that agentic AI will fundamentally change the knowledge work and do you think this technology could impact job and even broader industries across the board?

Guest:

Absolutely so. I mean considering the broader impact on jobs and industries. Agentic AI, for me, is indeed poised to fundamentally reshape knowledge work and, just as automation, for example, reshaped manufacturing decades ago, for me AI agents will reshape how we approach tasks that previously required human judgment, analysis and decision making. But, of course, let's be transparent and let's be clear. While, of course, some certain repetitive and or analytical jobs might become fully automated by AI agents, I think we are more likely to see an evolution rather than a replacement. I think roles will shift towards overseeing AI systems, ensuring quality and strategic alignment and strategic alignment, and focusing more deeply on tasks that require human creativity, empathy and some nuanced judgments. So, for me, the real story isn't about job losses. It's about transformation. Once again, it was always about transformation and, of course, always about adoption to a future where humans and proactive AI work side by side and leveraging each other's strengths.

Jim Jockle:

Well, I guess any transformation is always scary, right? You think about robotics and manufacturing, and how many workers were on a floor as compared to being there today, as compared to being there today. So what is the best way, as a human, and dealing with this evolution of transformation that for many of us probably many of our listeners is close to hitting home? How should they be thinking about it and approaching the introduction of agents? Is it just run away in a hole and be scared and perhaps get automated yourself? Or, from your perspective, what's some best practices that people should be thinking of? I mean?

Guest:

for me, when it comes to agentic AI, it's all about trust and transparency, and it's about responsible and transparent governance. Be proactive. As a human that might be affected by agentic AI and I think we are all going to be affected by AI Be proactive, be transparent and try to be part of the solution. And for our leaders, it should be the goal to include as many people as possible in your strategy when it comes to finding out where an AI agent can help your organization and make the people part of the solution, because you will still need these people. You will still need these people to make sure your models do know what they are going to do and you know what your people are doing, making sure you are not teaching wrong things to your AI model. So, for me, it's all about trust. It's all about transparent governance.

Jim Jockle:

There was a recent McKinsey report that was talking about adoption of AI, and the report itself was really focused on generative AI, and the interesting thing was it was talking about more, let's say, middle management and workers themselves were more prone to be trying to utilize or figure out ways to adopt to all of these AI tools, and it wasn't necessarily management or the old guard, if you will, in terms of driving AI initiatives down. I guess a couple of questions. Here is number one are you seeing a change now from some of the companies and organizations you work with in terms of of thinking a little bit more about how they're introducing ai tools, uh, systematically? And a second is you know, when it comes to agentic ai, it's like we haven't even solved the first problem in terms of changing the ways we work, but now we now we've got a whole new thing, so so where's the adoption curve?

Guest:

right now. I think it really depends on organization. I am. I know organizations that are still struggling to just use simple automations in their processes. I know some organizations that are dealing with ai agents already and what I see why some organizations are far ahead than than the other ones is that they do have one strategy, but they are still adapting. They do have a flexible strategy. For example, when, like five or six years ago, there was no generative AI strategy or part of generative AI in corporate strategy, and because of all the hype and explosion through ChatGPT, it was all spread on tables of all CEOs worldwide and it was very easy to use them and to use hands-on new AI technologies they figured out.

Guest:

Okay, it's affecting me already. Maybe I should put that into my corporate strategy as well. But it's affecting me already. Maybe I should put that into my corporate strategy as well. So the goal for me is to always encourage leaders from our customers to make sure you do have a strategy, make sure you do have an AI strategy, but be flexible. The changes they are dramatically. We are seeing that the costs per token are going down and down. It's it's not comparable to the cost of tokens two years ago. So be flexible in your strategy, because what we are seeing in the industry is that a lot of things will change, if you like it or not. Be flexible to adapt to them and make sure you are using some part of it let's talk about disruption.

Jim Jockle:

Um, you know, obviously, um ai has the ability to be incredibly disruptive, but yet you know, we still see pushback. We saw, um you know, the huge uh screen actors guild strike uh in terms of use of AI tools with any entertainment industry in the film industry. You know there was the longshoreman strikes here in the United States of keeping automation and AI off the docks, if you will. You know, but from your perspective, you know, you have a wide view on the market. You know, are there any particular industries that you that potentially will see the most disruption from agentic ai in the next three?

Guest:

to five years. I mean I'm I do have mixed feelings or mixed thoughts about that. There are some industries we are seeing that are poised to experience the most disruption from agentic ai over, let's say, the next five years, and they include finance, logistics, healthcare and especially customer service, for example, logistics and supply chain. They will become hyper-efficient as AI autonomously adjusts operations in response to real-time conditions. Healthcare will for me, it is already witnessing substantial shifts of AI managing patient monitoring, predictive diagnostics and personalized, hyper personalized treatment plans. So, on one hand, these industries stand at the forefront because they involve complex decision-making, massive data flows and critical real-time adjustments, precisely where agentic AI shines brightest.

Guest:

On the other hand, I'm seeing that we are coming away from the Pareto principle, so we were always taught to always think of a beta 20. So to see where we can solve beta percent of work with 20% of input data or with money. But what? I'm seeing? That with the help of agentic AI or like trends around agentic AI AI agents, that nowadays you can build multimillion dollar businesses just with one or two people and you can solve very niche problems just within some weeks and or even some days and um. So, wherever you have a very niche, a very, very small problem, but that's costing you millions and millions of dollars. But there is no solution yet, and there or it would be too expensive or it was too expensive some years ago. Nowadays, you can just hire some people and they can build the solution with AI agents in some days.

Jim Jockle:

That's incredible. So that's almost good advice to all the CEOs out there is where are your highest costs within your business and to what extent can AI reduce some of that cost burden? That's an interesting way to look at it and, I think, a really good takeaway, but sadly we made it to the final question of this podcast and so we call it the trend drop. It's like a desert island question.

Guest:

So we call it the trend drop. It's like a desert island question. And if you could only watch or track one fusion of agentic AI and hyper personalization banking experiences. Because what I'm already seeing now is that, with the help of generative AI, with the help of agentic AI systems, hyper personalization is going to affect everything For me. I'm sometimes even imagining a future where my bank doesn't just respond to my financial needs, but also anticipates my life goals proactively, so adjusting my investments, suggesting strategic financial moves and even preparing my financial, health or life changes before I even ask. So it is a blend of proactive intelligence and hyper-personalized touch that has the potential for me to transform banking from a passive service into my trusted financial ally, and that's a trend I'm incredibly excited about.

Jim Jockle:

Well, enver, if I was on a desert island, I'd have an agent schedule me a rescue ship. I want to thank you so much for your insights. I really appreciated the conversation. You're on the cutting edge of the hype cycle, but that reality is coming absolutely quick. So thank you so much for your time today. Thank you, jim for having me today.

Jim Jockle:

Thank you, Jim, for having me. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode and if you're enjoying Trading Tomorrow, navigating trends and capital markets, be sure to like, subscribe and share, and we'll see you next time you.